Excessive hunger

Hi.

I have a problem with excessive hunger that maybe you can help me with.

My backstory:
I come from eating a standard western diet on 2200 cals. Then I started on a Paleo diet and unconsciously dropped my calorie inntake to 1600 cals with no hunger and lost 10kg.
During a two year period i gradually and unintentionally increased my calori intake to 3000 cals as I found more ways to add fat into my diet and started gaining weight.
When I figured out what was going on and went back to eating 1600 cals, i started getting hungry. The hunger didn't vanish over time and I still get hungry even when I eat to mantain weight. (2200 cals)

I have tried a lot of different things to get rid of the hunger; Mixing up my macros, Ditching dairy, Meal timing and Intermittent Fasting. The only thing that works where I don't go to bed hungy is eating around 3000 cals.
Somehow my body now thinks 3000 cals a day is what I need, but I'm gaining 1,5 kg per month so this is clearly not the case.

Has anybody experience somthing like this? Any advice on whats going on and how to fix it?

Thanks.

I don't think "eating less" should be a goal. Your body uses energy for good purposes. Hunger is an important signal. I recommend trying to satisfy your hunger while raising your metabolic rate, such that your body uses the energy, rather than storing it. Don't force your body to try to subsist on less.

Try getting a good amount of protein (at least 100 grams) and making coconut your main source of fat. Medium-chain triglycerides are less likely to be stored, compared to long-chain ones.

Welcome to our group. I hope you find some long term success here.

I'd say you should take a hard look at restarting on Primal Blueprint. I've got a topic in the "How do you do this" category that talks about starting on PB. You may be already all on board with this, but one key point is that you should focus on what kinds of food you eat, not how much you eat. Eating the right foods should help curtail your need to feed and will see your consumption slowly drop. I also would not focus on calorie intake at all.

My personal experience was that getting going on PB saw my weight drop significantly and my food consumption went down easily, naturally, with no adverse effects. I dropped down to 2 meals/day because I wasn't hungry, and I'm still a 2 x day eater (brunch & dinner.) My hunger pangs pretty much disappeared on PB, but when I would get hungry I'd be really hungry, a way different feeling than my previous "I'm hungry" type thing.

Keep posting on your progress, and again welcome.

Welcome.

I second Rig. I do far better when I ignore calories and eat properly. Calorie counting has a way of making you pick less desirable foods sometimes as they are “cheap” on the calorie count, but not filling as they lack nutrients.

Can’t wait to follow your journey

Two thoughts:

Going from 3000 to 1600/2200 calories is a big drop. If you're still calorie-counting, it may help to ramp down more gradually, by decreasing your daily average caloric intake by only 200 to 300 calories each week.

You mentioned that the additional calories mostly snuck in as added fat. Personally, I've always found meat more satiating than fat. For instance, a 10oz ribeye steak is the caloric equivalent of around 1/2 cup of fat. 1/2 cup isn't much, it's only 8 tablespoons; now that I'm keto-adapted, I can practically drink that much fat like water. I wouldn't be particularly satiated after downing a glass of fat, but that 10oz steak would tide me over for a while. If the extra protein isn't a problem for you, I'd suggest cutting out added oils as much as possible and replacing them with the caloric equivalent in meat.

Thank you for your replays.

Ellito wrote:I recommend trying to satisfy your hunger while raising your metabolic rate, such that your body uses the energy, rather than storing it.

I have been thinking about doing just that. It would be a lot of extra exercise/movment to add to my daily schedule, but I will give it a try.

Ellito wrote:Try getting a good amount of protein (at least 100 grams) and making coconut your main source of fat.

I think I am getting around 120 grams of protein and coconut oil and avocados is already my main fat source.

Rig D wrote:Welcome to our group. I hope you find some long term success here.

I'd say you should take a hard look at restarting on Primal Blueprint.

Thank you.
I have tried going 100% paleo/primal for an extended period of time without limiting my inntake, (Usualy I eat around 80% paleo for social reasons), but it didn't change anything except gaining a lot of weight. I dont think the quality of the food I am eating is the problem. I dont have any problems sticking to the primal staples.

Rig D wrote:My personal experience was that getting going on PB saw my weight drop significantly and my food consumption went down easily, naturally, with no adverse effects.

Yeah thats my experience too when I first started going Primal, but gradually I managed to make my food so delicious that I started overeating.
The thing is I didn't do any calorie counting back then. It is only the last two years I have done that to track my progress regarding my weight and hunger.

Narrowminded wrote:Welcome.

Can’t wait to follow your journey

Thank you.

Nightly Orange wrote:If you're still calorie-counting, it may help to ramp down more gradually, by decreasing your daily average caloric intake by only 200 to 300 calories each week.

So I would gradually go from 3000 to 2200 in a month. I will try that.
I have actually been doing calorie restriction on and off for a 3-4 months at a time, just to not end up as a living balloon. After that period when I resumed eating to when I didn't felt hungry, I was right back to 3000 cals. But maybe my body never adaptet to it because the drop in calories was just to big?

Nightly Orange wrote:If the extra protein isn't a problem for you, I'd suggest cutting out added oils as much as possible and replacing them with the caloric equivalent in meat.

A couple of months ago I started on Robb Wolfs Keto Masterclass and tried keto for a week. In that period I did just that, but I had to give up because it didnt fix my hunger. I just lost all my appetite and had a lot of digestive distress because of all the meat. I also had trouble going to sleep, whitch was the main reason I stoped keto.

But now I am thinking about doing a new attempt at keto. But this time with a more moderat protein intake.
Robb Wolf had some interesting ideas regarding keto and how it can fix a broken metabolism. Maybe this could work for me.



I also am thinking of implementing a 24 hour fasting once a week or every other week.

I suggest taking things slowly. First ramp the meat a bit while cutting the fat. Or as suggested do that while slowly decreasing the calories a bit if you must count them. After you are adapted to that, then you can slowly dial down the carb and then when feeling good there add the fast. If you do everything at once your body will probably rebel

Ellito wrote:I recommend trying to satisfy your hunger while raising your metabolic rate, such that your body uses the energy, rather than storing it.

I have been thinking about doing just that. It would be a lot of extra exercise/movment to add to my daily schedule, but I will give it a try.

That's not what I meant. You should try to raise your metabolic rate by increasing your body temperature and heat production. Exercising too much is itself a source of stress.

What are you eating these days? Can you give us a typical day's menu?

Are you substantially below your highest-ever weight?

What about other lifestyle aspects: physical activity, sleep, stress?

Narrowminded wrote:If you do everything at once your body will probably rebel

I know. I will try to take it slow. It's just so many things I want to try out. Guess I am a bit
overeager.

Ellito wrote:You should try to raise your metabolic rate by increasing your body temperature and heat production.

Ah, I understand. My mistake.

sharperhawk wrote:What are you eating these days? Can you give us a typical day's menu?

Are you substantially below your highest-ever weight?

What about other lifestyle aspects: physical activity, sleep, stress?

A typical days menu:

Breakfast and Lunch

-Meat (pork chop or chicken breast)
-Avocado
-A fruit
-Some vegetables


Dinner

-Some form of meat
-Chopped tomatoes
-Coconut oil
-Some vegetables


Evening meal

-Eggs
-Cheese
-Some vegetables

My highest ever weight was 89 kg. I am currently at 86 kg. When first started Paleo my weight dropt down to 75 kg during a 12 months period.

I dont do a lot of physical exercise and have a sedetary deskjob, but I am walking for 2 hours each day.
I dont think I have much mental stress, but my sleep has actually been a problem.

I thought I was getting enough sleep. I got 8-9 hours in bed and woke up before the alarm clock.
But I recently got my Oura ring, witch is a very accurate sleep tracker. It told me I only got between 5-7 hours of sleep every night.

So now after I startet getting even earlier to bed I have finaly gotten my first three days with 8 hour sleep. So maybe better sleep is all I need. Some research shows that sleep deprivation can make you 24% more hungry, witch sounds like whats going on here.

Walking and low stress sound good to me, and you're working on your sleep.

Food reward is a major factor that influences hunger levels. Food variety, added fat, added sugar, herbs, spices, and other condiments can increase food reward. Although real traditional/paleo diets are low reward, a look at most paleo cookbooks and recipe collections tells me that paleo promoters do not understand how hyperpalatable foods undermine weight loss/maintenance.

Stephan Guyenet outlined what he called a Simple Diet, in several levels of commitment: Food Reward: a Dominant Factor in Obesity, Part VII. You probably shouldn't dive to Level 5 (which isn't sustainable for most people anyway) right away, but you could see where you are now and try the next level.

sharperhawk wrote:Stephan Guyenet outlined what he called a Simple Diet, in several levels of commitment: Food Reward: a Dominant Factor in Obesity, Part VII. You probably shouldn't dive to Level 5 (which isn't sustainable for most people anyway) right away, but you could see where you are now and try the next level.

A very interesting read! I have read a bit about the same consepts in Robb Wolf new book "Wired to eat".
I think I am somewhere between Level 3 and 2 right now. The interesting thing is that when I first started eating paleo I was eating quite plain and boring. At that time I was actually at level 4 most of the time, which also was the period I dropped the most weight.

Alright!
I think I have a plan now.

I will try going back to level 4 for a couple of weeks and see if that normalizes things.
Thanks.