Metformin and mTORC1

Go down

Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:45 am

I recently came across a bit of info that says Metformin disrupts mTORC1 which is the pathway that increases HGH production.
Can someone who has used it post about what they noticed. I will have to look into it, but I doubt even that reduction will work without fasting (or atleast avoid protein and carb in the metformin dosage window)

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Rig D on Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:57 am

My wife uses metformin as needed for her diabetes. Since going Primal some years back and maintaining a low carb diet, her need for medication is greatly reduced. She originally took a long lasting insulin, but changed to Metformin after several years of having to steadily increase her insulin to keep her blood sugar in line. This all was before going Primal. For her, I don't think there were any side effects.
avatar
Rig D

Posts : 672
Join date : 2017-11-27
Location : Dayton OH

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:13 pm

Metformin is supposed to be eaten with food. I dont think anyone should/would do otherwise.
But food pretty much ensures mTOR is high and likely insulin as well, likely never letting the HGH and autophagy come into play.
I guess I am in an off label use if I want metformin only for its side effects and not for its main purpose.

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Paysan on Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:39 pm

Hubby manages his diabetes with 2 things - berberine (Metformin's parent) and a lot of wifely nagging. Both fail on occasion, but women with PCOS taking Metformin have managed to lose weight. This, in itself, indicates just losing weight helps regulate insulin even further.
Hubby also skips supper 2-4 times a week.It's not quite IF'ing, but close, since he snacks several times a day till late afternoon, as well as having brekie and dinner (lunch). He got into his proper weight range more than a decade ago.
Be careful with Metformin, Srinath. Hubby reacts badly and turns into a zombie. Don't know nor care why. Evil or Very Mad

Paysan

Posts : 139
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:41 pm

Naa Not going near it. mTOR will be lowered naturally.

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by OnTheBayou on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:23 pm

srinath_69 wrote:Metformin is supposed to be eaten with food. I dont think anyone should/would do otherwise.
But food pretty much ensures mTOR is high and likely insulin as well, likely never letting the HGH and autophagy come into play.
I guess I am in an off label use if I want metformin only for its side effects and not for its main purpose.

We've been all around this topic, like Dr. Fung and insulin, again and again.

Metformin, regardless of what straws you are grasping, is a miracle drug. It is one of the "go to" drugs for the life extension crowd due to lower insulin levels.

I've been taking it for some years, never a concern about with food or not.

OnTheBayou

Posts : 144
Join date : 2017-11-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Paysan on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 pm

Did you ever hear the results when an immovable object meets an irresistible force? Why do I get that feeling about now? Heheheh. Laughing

Paysan

Posts : 139
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by OnTheBayou on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Paysan wrote:Did you ever hear the results when an immovable object meets an irresistible force? Why do I get that feeling about now? Heheheh. Laughing

Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, broken record or something.

OnTheBayou

Posts : 144
Join date : 2017-11-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:01 am

OnTheBayou wrote:
Paysan wrote:Did you ever hear the results when an immovable object meets an irresistible force? Why do I get that feeling about now? Heheheh. Laughing

Ha, ha, ha.  Yeah, broken record or something.

Guys - please listed to the "FACT" from someone who's only got 2000+ records ... a Broken record will not play at all.
A scratched record will play the same section ~2 sec long over and over again ... unless you set it past the scratch.
Get it ? not "Broken" - scratched. Clueless people who call everything as "broken" are to blame for y'all's confusion. As a hi-fi fanatic, I cant not stress this distinction enough.

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by sharperhawk on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:41 pm

srinath_69 wrote:Guys - please listed to the "FACT" from someone who's only got 2000+ records ... a Broken record will not play at all.

What percent of those 2,000 patients reversed their diabetes and for how long? The problem with anecdotes is cherry picking. Fung doesn't present a representative sample of his patients. He presents a few of his cases with excellent outcomes. We have no protocol of his treatment and no idea of how the typical patient fares.
avatar
sharperhawk

Posts : 93
Join date : 2017-11-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Paysan on Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:21 pm

Since fasting is a very ancient tradition among many peoples worldwide, its safety is virtually unchallenged by history for certain groups of people. Very sensibly, Dr Fung admonishes the weak and severely malnourished, pregnant and nursing women and underweight people ,those with a BMI below 20, against fasting.
So how did fasting lose its honorable position as a spiritual healing modality? Fung lays part of the blame at the feet of big corporations who had food to sell. When people started being influenced to eat food 3 to 6 or more times per day (the oftener the better for Big Ag  pockets), the very notion of consciously avoiding food intake for longer than overnight became anathema to many people. That's why break fast has been called the most important meal of the day. Diet gurus jumped on the bandwagon with their erroneous advice to avoid the slightest hint of hunger by replenishing energy levels every couple of hours. (Remember Susan Powter and her low fat, high carb ,eat whenever philosophy?)
Ramadan fasting has produced verifiable health benefits to its adherents, although no attempt is made
to lose weight, and they can eat anytime, any amount, during nighttime. I have read a couple reports on their accomplishments.

Paysan

Posts : 139
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Paysan on Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Here's one: https://www.soundvision.com/article/the-spiritual-and-health-benefits-of-ramadan-fasting
Quote:The physiological effect of fasting includes lowering of blood sugar, lowering of cholesterol and lowering of the systolic blood pressure. In fact, Ramadan fasting would be an ideal recommendation for the treatment of mild to moderate, stable, non-insulin diabetes, obesity, and essential hypertension. In 1994 the first International Congress on "Health and Ramadan", held in Casablanca, entered 50 extensive studies on the medical ethics of fasting. While improvement in many medical conditions was noted; however, in no way did fasting worsen any patients' health or their baseline medical condition. On the other hand, patients who are suffering from sever diseases, whether type I diabetes or coronary artery disease, kidney stones, etc., are exempt from fasting and should not be allowed to fast. Unquote.
It's reassuring that there were over 50 studies entered in 1994.
However, if you're worried that someone from the proscribed groups may read and do themselves harm, that is their perogative, the same as giving up carbs or going keto or paleo or poking ourselves every day to test our reactions is ours.

Paysan

Posts : 139
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:53 pm

sharperhawk wrote:
srinath_69 wrote:Guys - please listed to the "FACT" from someone who's only got 2000+ records ... a Broken record will not play at all.

What percent of those 2,000 patients reversed their diabetes and for how long? The problem with anecdotes is cherry picking. Fung doesn't present a representative sample of his patients. He presents a few of his cases with excellent outcomes. We have no protocol of his treatment and no idea of how the typical patient fares.

I don't know, I've been trying to get Dr Fung to help me on something, and he seems to think I shouldn't torture myself.
I (AFAIK) think the diabetes reversal works like this ... you fast and lose weight, and poof goes the diabetes. Then set yourself a upper weight and a lower weight, fast @ the upper, eat 3 X a day @ the lower, and whatever you feel like in between.
Who knows, its all great - I got thin and ended up with "catastrophic success" ... much like Afghanisthan and Iraq ... we levelled the place with tanks, now what, the people there still hate us.
So, I'm thin but my body still wants to be fat ??? No clue, I am fasting out of laziness ... but also don't see a better way.

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Paysan on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:08 pm

It's possible that your fasting is keeping the wolf at bay, Srinath. It's also possible that you are losing the battle at a much slower rate than otherwise. This means that, although fasting may not be harming you, your lifestyle when not fasting is pulling you down. But as you control what you eat and don't eat, you have to have regular checkups to make sure you aren't deceiving yourself that this is the healthiest way of life.
FWIW, the overweight body when slimmed down still wants to climb back to its set weight, and most ex-fatties will struggle with this tendency the rest of their life.

Paysan

Posts : 139
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:37 am

This I think I said back in summer on that other forum - Fasting isn't a WOE.
If anything Fasting can be called a WO not E, but then again, so is breathing or walking or whatever. You learn that "fasting" is the 30 cc of thorazine cure ala Mel Brooks.

I am doing the checkup's as and when insurance allows plus every time I go to Walmart (free BP etc etc).
I'm off the alchy and over doing nuts etc, I am trying to get to 10% BF again and lets see how far that gets me, and I'll do 2-3 work out's a week allowing plenty of recovery time between them.

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Paysan on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:20 pm

Whew, Srinath. You had us all worried that they'd be carting you out feet first. I'm glad you are trying to look at  things in a more realistic manner. BTW, Fung did not advocate fasting if you are below 20 BMI. I don't know how that translates to fat %.
And nuts, in moderation, are a doggone healthy food. If moderation is difficult, then avoidance may be the only option, as it is for this all-or-nothing gal.
We're a long way off the original topic, aren't we? Heheheh.

Paysan

Posts : 139
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by srinath_69 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:53 pm

Paysan wrote:Whew, Srinath. You had us all worried that they'd be carting you out feet first. I'm glad you are trying to look at  things in a more realistic manner. BTW, Fung did not advocate fasting if you are below 20 BMI. I don't know how that translates to fat %.
And nuts, in moderation, are a doggone healthy food. If moderation is difficult, then avoidance may be the only option, as it is for this all-or-nothing gal.
We're a long way off the original topic, aren't we? Heheheh.

I've been hovering near the 20 BMI for a while now.
I think its a bit confusing though, for someone who was fatter the 20 BMI leaves a lot more loose skin, the fatter you are, the more there is to autophagy out.
Let me just say I was lighter than now, and I felt great then, as do I now, so its just laziness and all the other cardinal sins that make me want to fast.

srinath_69

Posts : 174
Join date : 2017-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Metformin and mTORC1

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum