I am a Numbers Person

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I am a Numbers Person

Post by ShelleyM on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:56 pm

Hi All,

I am getting Primal again. I have spent time reading (Mark's Daily Apple) how many grams of protein I need to consume at my current weight and to lose weight. It is 116g. I am easily able to eat <60g of carbs. I roughly calculated my caloric intake should be around 1600. The balance of which should be fat. When I eat Primal I cannot consume nearly that many calories. My caloric intake is pretty low, but I am not hungry. My concern is that I am not eating enough protein and fat to continue to encourage weight loss. How do you guys balance the equation? Do you even track or log what you are eating? I hate logging, but it has been truly enlightening to learn how few calories I am really consuming. Just wondering the approach of others.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by RedComet on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:06 pm

I have the opposite problem; if I don't watch it, I sometimes eat too much!

If you need more fat and protein to round out your macronutrient spread, I might recommend a few things.

If you tolerate dairy, grass-fed cheese is a great source of both fat AND protein.
Adding a bit of extra fat (where appropriate) in the form of olive oil, butter, ghee or coconut oil will increase caloric density.
If high-cacao dark chocolate figures into your eating plan, I'd recommend a bit of that; also, a spoonful of coconut butter, while low in carbs, is nice and high in fat, and makes a great snack!
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by ShelleyM on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:13 pm

Thank you RedComet. I do use olive oil and butter whenever I can. I also use dairy in the form of greek yogurt, sour cream, and heavy cream to up the fat. Unfortunately, I can't stand the taste of coconut, so that option is out for me. How many carbs does dark chocolate have? I wonder if an ounce a day might help? I know it would help my frame of mind! Smile I had not considered adding in cheese. I do tolerate dairy well.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by RedComet on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:17 pm

The amount of carbs in dark chocolate will vary, but if you can keep the serving reasonable the carbs are not too high for many brands. Off the top of my head, I believe that a full serving of Lindt 85% dark chocolate contains about 15g of carb (~6 are fiber) and 18g of fat. I've encountered some brands that are lower in carb and some that are higher, too. And, of course, if you can tolerate the really dark stuff (90% cacao content and higher) then the carbs will be even fewer.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by ShelleyM on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:20 pm

I was afraid the carb count was too high for me right now. Maybe in 6 months or so. But then maybe that is the problem with my thought process. I am shaving off too many carbs and losing the opportunity for fat.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by Annieh on Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 am

I found my best approach was to make sure I hit the target for protein, did not exceed the limit for carbs and then used only a little fat to make it palatable, with the rest coming from my own body stores.

This worked fine until I reached my desired body composition. I'm not sure why you feel you need to eat more fat at this stage, especially if you are not hungry.  This is the blessing of the primal way, IMO. Adding cheese is highly likely to stall fat loss.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by Pedidoc on Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:04 am

We all are a bit different in how we react to the different breakdowns. I would say if you are not hungry and are staying in your carb limit, you should see how it goes for a few weeks before trying to add fat or more protein unless you get hungry.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by Rig D on Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:55 am

Hi Shelley, and welcome aboard. I hope you have good success with your campaign. I've posted in the "How do you Do This" section on how to get going with Primal, How do I start off with Primal (Opinion).

I'm not big into the "numbers". I advocate a simple minded approach, eat the right foods and listen to your body on whether you are getting enough to eat. Be sure not to overlook the exercise and sleep components of Primal.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by ShelleyM on Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:09 am

Oh my, I spent quite some time composing a post this morning explaining how I arrived at my selected numbers. I posted it, and it disappeared. That is probably a very good thing because as I was writing it, I realized how neurotic I sounded. Smile I am just going to eat what I know I should when I am hungry and see how that goes. It was successful before.

Thank you all for reminding me of that.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by sharperhawk on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:05 pm

I disagree with the advice to eat large amounts of added fat, such as butter in coffee. In my opinion, added fat is to be treated with as much caution as added sugar.

If you need more protein and tolerate diary, you could drink whey protein shakes. Real food is best, but one shake for 40 grams of protein could help when your appetite is low.

Perhaps low appetite can be used as a buffer that will allow you to enjoy an occasional restaurant meal or family gathering with minimal restrictions. Being too strict is often unsustainable.

The Primal Blueprint allows for up to 150 grams of carbs. Unless you have a particular need for a lower target - e.g., epileptic seizures - I think it's best to start with less restriction. Stick with the kind of carbs that are traditional around the world, like rice or potatoes, and minimize the junky carbs like French fries, potato chips, baked desserts, etc.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by Lovebird on Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:57 am

sharperhawk wrote:I disagree with the advice to eat large amounts of added fat, such as butter in coffee. In my opinion, added fat is to be treated with as much caution as added sugar.

If you need more protein and tolerate diary, you could drink whey protein shakes. Real food is best, but one shake for 40 grams of protein could help when your appetite is low.

Perhaps low appetite can be used as a buffer that will allow you to enjoy an occasional restaurant meal or family gathering with minimal restrictions. Being too strict is often unsustainable.

The Primal Blueprint allows for up to 150 grams of carbs. Unless you have a particular need for a lower target - e.g., epileptic seizures - I think it's best to start with less restriction. Stick with the kind of carbs that are traditional around the world, like rice or potatoes, and minimize the junky carbs like French fries, potato chips, baked desserts, etc.

Actually 100-150 is the PB Maintenance Range... 50-100 the Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss.

Mark Sisson wrote:100-150 grams/day – Primal Blueprint Maintenance Range

This range based on body weight and activity level. When combined with Primal exercises, allows for genetically optimal fat burning and muscle development. Range derived from Grok’s (ancestors’) example of enjoying abundant vegetables and fruits and avoiding grains and sugars.

50-100 grams/day – Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss

Minimizes insulin production and ramps up fat metabolism. By meeting average daily protein requirements (.7 – 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight formula), eating nutritious vegetables and fruits (easy to stay in 50-100 gram range, even with generous servings), and staying satisfied with delicious high fat foods (meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds), you can lose one to two pounds of body fat per week and then keep it off forever by eating in the maintenance range.

Aside from that I'd say that's pretty solid advice. Just like the things the others have shared as well. Smile


Things/views sure have changed since 2009...

MS wrote:0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning

Acceptable for a day or two of Intermittent Fasting towards aggressive weight loss efforts, provided adequate protein, fat and supplements are consumed otherwise. May be ideal for many diabetics. Not necessarily recommended as a long-term practice for otherwise healthy people due to resultant deprivation of high nutrient value vegetables and fruits.

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-primal-carbohydrate-continuum/
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by ONTARIO on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:00 am

Rig D wrote:

I'm not big into the "numbers". I advocate a simple minded approach, eat the right foods and listen to your body on whether you are getting enough to eat. Be sure not to overlook the exercise and sleep components of Primal.

I agree. If you're not hungry at your current calorie intake count it as a blessing and carry on. Like you, I can find an amount of neurotic behaviour on my part by getting too focused on numbers. I try to keep it simple for this reason.

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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by ONTARIO on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:06 am

Lovebird wrote:
sharperhawk wrote:I disagree with the advice to eat large amounts of added fat, such as butter in coffee. In my opinion, added fat is to be treated with as much caution as added sugar.

If you need more protein and tolerate diary, you could drink whey protein shakes. Real food is best, but one shake for 40 grams of protein could help when your appetite is low.

Perhaps low appetite can be used as a buffer that will allow you to enjoy an occasional restaurant meal or family gathering with minimal restrictions. Being too strict is often unsustainable.

The Primal Blueprint allows for up to 150 grams of carbs. Unless you have a particular need for a lower target - e.g., epileptic seizures - I think it's best to start with less restriction. Stick with the kind of carbs that are traditional around the world, like rice or potatoes, and minimize the junky carbs like French fries, potato chips, baked desserts, etc.

Actually 100-150 is the PB Maintenance Range... 50-100 the Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss.

Mark Sisson wrote:100-150 grams/day – Primal Blueprint Maintenance Range

This range based on body weight and activity level. When combined with Primal exercises, allows for genetically optimal fat burning and muscle development. Range derived from Grok’s (ancestors’) example of enjoying abundant vegetables and fruits and avoiding grains and sugars.

50-100 grams/day – Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss

Minimizes insulin production and ramps up fat metabolism. By meeting average daily protein requirements (.7 – 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight formula), eating nutritious vegetables and fruits (easy to stay in 50-100 gram range, even with generous servings), and staying satisfied with delicious high fat foods (meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds), you can lose one to two pounds of body fat per week and then keep it off forever by eating in the maintenance range.

Aside from that I'd say that's pretty solid advice. Just like the things the others have shared as well. Smile


Things/views sure have changed since 2009...

MS wrote:0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning

Acceptable for a day or two of Intermittent Fasting towards aggressive weight loss efforts, provided adequate protein, fat and supplements are consumed otherwise. May be ideal for many diabetics. Not necessarily recommended as a long-term practice for otherwise healthy people due to resultant deprivation of high nutrient value vegetables and fruits.

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-primal-carbohydrate-continuum/

Agreed. I also believe the original views of Sisson and the PB to be most doable for the average person. Also, I realize there are exceptions but most women I have known to go truly keto don't flourish. Mark even mentions this in a post on MDA ( I can go look for it if necessary). We're just wired to need a few more carbs than men. But ideally it should still be under 100 grams per day (as per the PB curve).

In the end, though, we need to do what works for us individually.

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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by Narrowminded on Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:53 am

“In the end we all need to find what works for us, individually”

This. Sometimes ‘this’ takes a bit of experimentation and that is where the info from MS comes into play, it gives a good place to start.
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Re: I am a Numbers Person

Post by Rig D on Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:41 pm

I'd again suggest just following the plain old PB approach for a couple of months and see how it goes. Lots of time to tinker around after you know how the base program affects you.
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