How long can you live w/o veggies?

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by priest on Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:39 pm

"Wow! Are you sure this is Priest, the vegan proponent , talking???"

EX-vegan proponent, yes! after being duped into believing groupthink veganazi propaganda lies like "cow farts are driving global warming" and "cattle farming is destroying rainforests" and "bacon is a class 1 carcinogen" (the topics are almost limitless), I have come around to the TRUE lifestyle and movement, Paleo and Keto. somewhere along the way I got hoodwinked and started denying basic common sense: if a food tastes good, it MUST be good for you. bacon tastes good. pork chops taste good. kale tastes like shit. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that veggies are the "root" of all evil, but it DOES take a bunch of neo-hippie fascist vegans to make up a bunch of lies about the fake sustainability of vegetable eating to create doubt that we evolved correctly as meat eaters.

I apologize for my past behavior as one of these idiot vegans in trying to detract Grokkers and Primal advocates from real discussions about meat and optimal human and environmental health. thank GOD for this lively, prolific and SPAM-FREE forum! you guys rock!

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Rocky07 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:12 am

Priest, please tolerate my skepticism, but your overly zealous post strikes me as not so thinly veiled trolling. Hope you prove me wrong.

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Lovebird on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:27 am

priest wrote:"Wow! Are you sure this is Priest, the vegan proponent , talking???"

EX-vegan proponent, yes!  after being duped into believing groupthink veganazi propaganda lies like "cow farts are driving global warming" and "cattle farming is destroying rainforests" and "bacon is a class 1 carcinogen" (the topics are almost limitless), I have come around to the TRUE lifestyle and movement, Paleo and Keto.  somewhere along the way I got hoodwinked and started denying basic common sense:  if a food tastes good, it MUST be good for you.  bacon tastes good.  pork chops taste good.  kale tastes like shit.  it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that veggies are the "root" of all evil, but it DOES take a bunch of neo-hippie fascist vegans to make up a bunch of lies about the fake sustainability of vegetable eating to create doubt that we evolved correctly as meat eaters.

I apologize for my past behavior as one of these idiot vegans in trying to detract Grokkers and Primal advocates from real discussions about meat and optimal human and environmental health.  thank GOD for this lively, prolific and SPAM-FREE forum!  you guys rock!

Going from one extreme to the next and bashing your former 'buddies' is not going to do you any favors... most people can see right through this behaviour and acknowledge it for what it is. Merely quoting for future reference...

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by priest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:18 pm

I don't understand, do you think Primal/ Paleo is extreme? veganazism is DEFINITELY extreme, for sure, but I feel like everything is totally back to normal now. no more whacky ethics or environmental issues involved at mealtime. if it tastes good, eat it! no consequences or hidden agendas in that

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Paysan on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:21 pm

OKayyyy! Cheesecake, icing, peanut butter and/or onion and mayo samiches, KFC ,Chinese takeout coming up.
Oh wait! Weren't these the tasty things responsible for bleeding ulcers, total fatigue and serious weight gain in me over 20 years ago?
Sorry Priest, but good taste does not equate to good health in my book. I've had to amputate most of my taste buds in order to regain a measure of health. It's not that those items don't taste good, but that my tastes have been trained along different paths now.

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by priest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:26 pm

sorry, I meant tastes good AND healthy. I speak from the Primal perspective, not the SAD

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Lovebird on Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:37 am

https://www.dietdoctor.com/ketogenic-diet-fewer-vegetables

Interview of Ivor Cummins with Georgia Ede is temporarily available for non-members of dietdoctor.

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Annieh on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:27 am

Hmm, that was quite interesting.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Paysan on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:20 pm

Absolutely! Please note that Georgia Ede wasn't recommending a totally plant-free diet; but was close to it. Why? Because after trying almost every diet ever devised in N.A.; she personally received great benefit from a ketogenic diet. However, she may find later on that strict adherence to a 100% keto diet may fail her in the end. Dr. Mercola gives some insight on this even as he advocates for a cyclical keto diet that gives benefits while reducing some foreseeable drawbacks.
https://articles.mercola.com/ketogenic-diet.aspx
You will see that Mercola has changed his stance several times over the intervening years, but only as new info becomes available. He still eats veggies and grows most  of his own. Wink

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Lovebird on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:07 am

Keto is not plant free... au contraire.

Georgia Ede has her own personal reasons for keeping certain veggies/fruits out of her diet, aside from what she explains in her famous lecture 'Little Shop Of Horrors. The Risks And Benefits of Eating Plants' AHS 2012, so she eats a mostly meat diet.


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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by LoonieJ on Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:36 pm

Whether from a religious standpoint, or a philosophical one, to me, taking a stand against vegetables (or plants) isn't any better than taking a stand against meat.

This planet is filled with bounty. It's almost a 'sin' to poo-poo a whole group of food.

I'm not fond of a lot of veggies, but it would be tough for me to go without the ones I like for very long. That said, if I had to feed myself today on $X, I'd spend most of it on meat.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Lovebird on Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:22 am

Thought this would fit nicely in this thread: https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/03/14/dr-shawn-bakers-carnivore-diet-a-review/

Not so much because of the carnivore part, but more because Marty Kendall is all about nutrient density. Smile Plus it mentions Joe and Charlene Anderson, still doing fine on their ribeye regime. As well as the 2 boys.

http://meatheals.com/2018/02/04/charlene-andersen/#comment-133

FWIW I like veggies (especially those that are technically fruits). Colourful ones. As a sidedish to my protein. Wink And not in the form of raw kale... Then again, I've never had any of the issues with food the people in the 'meatheals' blog have/had. JMMV

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Rig D on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:53 am

^ These people have done well with this program, In particular, Charlene at age 42 has a body most young 20 types would envy.

My one experiment with starting off on Atkins back in the 70's seems to be pretty much in line with this "all carnivore" idea. I was good at first, but steadily felt worse as I progressed. I made it a few weeks in and just ran out of available energy to do anything at all. Perhaps I just didn't hang in long enough, but I just couldn't go any longer with it. I'll pass on further experiments with it, once was 1 time too many for me.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by OnTheBayou on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:23 pm

Very interesting links, Lovebird.  Spent too much time on the first one! Made some comments, see "pzo," my anywhere alter-ego.

While an all meat diet has helped some people greatly, I have concerns that show up in the first link, sub-optimal blood scores, for instance. And methionone loads.  I think that for some, the carnivore diet is like veganism.  Some outliers do well.  Most of us, not so much.

Also, Bor.......ing.

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Paysan on Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:25 am

Most of us don't have the means nor desire to track our blood scores, optimal or otherwise. We tend to accept that as long as we feel good, that everything is  ok. It may not be, but that's the way it is. Only sick people tend to worry about their scores.
FWIW, meat and fat diets aren't as boring as you'd think. Stephansson ate steak for a full year. There's no record of him ever refusing it during, nor even after the experiment ended. Those on the zero carb forum say the same about their meat choices.
OTB, I'd hazard a guess that your ancestors came from areas of year-round vegetables.Wink But northern cultures are not outliers, just ...different. And I just saw my daughter's cat, a committed carnivore, outside chewing on grass. Hmmmm. Razz

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Dawn on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:05 am

I've been considering going on an zero-carb diet for a while, since I still don't seem to loose weight on a regular keto-diet. But I've been reading "The Bears thread here
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013

...he certainly doesn't convince me. He braggs how super healthy he is and then mentions in a sidenote that he had throat cancer even though he never smoked nor drank much - the Drs were puzzled. His fasting glucose is around 100, I would personally be worried about my fasting glucose if it was around 100... and he spouts a lot of "facts" that are demonstrably false (zero carbs = zero insulin).

Granted you can live on zero carbs, for many many years even. And some people with severe digestive issues even thrive on it. The Inuit certainly did it and so did the masai. But I am still not convinced that it is generally better for everyone.

P.S. Could live on raw fish easily for a long time, but seal is disgusting... would not be able to stomach that raw or cooked

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by OnTheBayou on Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:06 am

Dawn, I've read Bear's comments several times over the years. Yes, he is scientifically inaccurate all over the place. And, who know about the throat cancer? People get lung cancer who have never smoked, men get breast cancer. Was it too much grill meat? I have no idea and I think conjecture would be dangerous.

A FBG of 100 is perfectly good and normal. Sure, we all like less, but 100 is OK. In fact, if we factor in the many observations that low carbers often have a creeping upward of FBG, it's possible that if he ate a few carbs it could be down at 85-90.

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Dawn on Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:18 am

I wouldn't suggest that the throat cancer is due to the zero-carb diet (sorry if it came off like that). But it certainly failed to prevent it, he wasn't the example of perfect health that he claimed. That was my point.

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by OnTheBayou on Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:28 am

Dawn, OK!

NO one has "perfect health." It's like people saying they've never been to the doctor's. Impossible. Even if a witch doctor. Very Happy

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Rig D on Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:33 am

I seriously doubt that Grok & co. would eat a 0 carb diet unless that was dictated by environment.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Dawn on Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:42 am

Rig D - I agree

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Paysan on Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:00 pm

So for northerners living where veggies don't grow, they have little choice except to eat mostly meat and fat, or buy inferior veggies shipped in by expensive air freight. But before we cry tears over their deprivation, those who stick to that severe a diet likely have no trouble with allergies, digestive ailments like celiac and Crohn's. The rest of us eat our veggies and have to dodge pesticides, herbicides and naturally occuring plant toxins. Or else do mainly as Bear did, w/o the braggadocio.

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