How long can you live w/o veggies?

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Narrowminded on Fri May 04, 2018 8:20 am

Looking at your list LB, I guess all that’s left is fish/seafood and many have issues with shellfish. Could not be a carnivore on that list.

I guess that’s a good reason we are all very different and need to avoid different things.

You are correct that some of her issues definitely are not avoided on typical AIP, which is pretty strict itself.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Lovebird on Fri May 04, 2018 8:30 am

Narrowminded wrote:Looking at your list LB, I guess all that’s left is fish/seafood and many have issues with shellfish. Could not be a carnivore on that list.

No? What about game? Lamb? Goat? Turkey? Rabbit? Duck?  Smile Granted it would be more difficult than with beef, but not impossible. And I'm sure there's more I can't think of right now, which are simply not as common as beef/pork/chicken. Wink

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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Nightly Orange on Fri May 04, 2018 12:23 pm

I'm all about the marine mammal diet. Whales and seals, baby. Human beings came from the sea, and we should eat from the sea. A sea otter steak is more ancestral than a ribeye.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Narrowminded on Sun May 06, 2018 9:34 am

LB true, I did forget about game and turkey. However, where I live seeing game will only happen if you know someone who hunts. I can’t even find duck around here. I can get turkey and minimal lamb. No goat, no rabbit. A friend does bring me venison at times, but nothing with regularity.

Getting marine food here is also a major stretch. As is mammals, nope not around here.

That’s ok, I don’t have any plans on switching to a carnivore diet.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by sharperhawk on Tue May 08, 2018 4:17 pm

Shawn Baker ate a carnivore diet for a year. His fasting glucose is now 127 mg/dl, in the diabetic range. He says that it was normal before. Other blood tests are suboptimal. His testosterone is freakishly low for such a muscular guy.

• Robb Wolf's podcast with Shawn Baker
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Nightly Orange on Wed May 09, 2018 12:17 pm

sharperhawk wrote:Shawn Baker ate a carnivore diet for a year. His fasting glucose is now 127 mg/dl, in the diabetic range. He says that it was normal before. Other blood tests are suboptimal. His testosterone is freakishly low for such a muscular guy.

• Robb Wolf's podcast with Shawn Baker

He notes that despite the blood glucose, he's still extremely insulin sensitive (on a scale of 2 to 20, with about 8 being the American average, his number was 2.6). There might be dawn phenomena involved, since his BG drops to the 80s over the course of the day. Also, re:testosterone, he gets boners every morning.

An argument he put forth is that his diet and lifestyle may sensitize him to hormones like testosterone, and allow him to do more with less, as it were. I heard something similar on the recent Joe Rogan and Peter Attia podcast, where they were talking about lactic acid levels in the muscles of elite athletes. Some athletes are elite because they can endure incredibly high levels of pain and acid buildup, but others (such as Michael Phelps) are elite because their levels never rise high at all even during Olympic competition, due to their body being so efficient at processing it.

So for something like testosterone, the pure concentration may not be the only thing that matters, but also how well your body utilizes what's available.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by sharperhawk on Fri May 11, 2018 10:22 am

High blood glucose over time is damaging in its own right. Insulin is a mechanism to keep glucose in range. This mechanism does not appear to be working correctly for Shawn Baker. He wrote on his blog that he has done over 100 glucose measurements, and the FBG and A1C are consistent with his own home testing.

The dawn phenomenon for non-diabetics looks like this (peak of 92 mg/dl).


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6389230

He has the free testosterone of a 16 year-old girl. How does an erection explain this situation?

Any scientific reference for the "super sensitivity" claim? Athletes have more T than couch potatoes and teenage girls, not less. I don't know what Usain Bolt's testosterone is, but I bet it is several times higher than Sailor Moon's.

The explanation I've heard is that Baker was probably using performance-enhancing drugs and then stopped before his lab tests. Apparently very low testosterone is a telltale sign. Baker claims that he is a natural athlete.

The best analysis I've seen is by ItsTheWooo: Magical thinking and born again low carbers: Shawn Baker drama continues.
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Re: How long can you live w/o veggies?

Post by Nightly Orange on Tue May 15, 2018 1:50 pm

sharperhawk wrote:High blood glucose over time is damaging in its own right. Insulin is a mechanism to keep glucose in range. This mechanism does not appear to be working correctly for Shawn Baker. He wrote on his blog that he has done over 100 glucose measurements, and the FBG and A1C are consistent with his own home testing.

The dawn phenomenon for non-diabetics looks like this (peak of 92 mg/dl).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6389230

He has the free testosterone of a 16 year-old girl. How does an erection explain this situation?

Any scientific reference for the "super sensitivity" claim? Athletes have more T than couch potatoes and teenage girls, not less. I don't know what Usain Bolt's testosterone is, but I bet it is several times higher than Sailor Moon's.

The explanation I've heard is that Baker was probably using performance-enhancing drugs and then stopped before his lab tests. Apparently very low testosterone is a telltale sign. Baker claims that he is a natural athlete.

The best analysis I've seen is by ItsTheWooo: Magical thinking and born again low carbers: Shawn Baker drama continues.

I'm also leery of even slightly elevated blood sugar for extended amounts of time. I'm not necessarily defending Baker or his claims, was simply jotting down the counters he offered on Wolf's podcast. The non-natty thing never even occurred to me, but I've been on the internet long enough that I should have thought of that, haha.
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