Fish Oil Supplementation

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Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Rocky07 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:11 pm

This is an oldie but goodie topic, lol. I stopped taking fish oil supplements years ago but have renewed interest as I start to develop a few joint aches and pains occasionally. Based on everything I can find, supplementation is minimally beneficial and potentially harmful. However, research is highly confounded and many brands are contaminated with heavy metals, highly processed into the ester form and oxidized/rancid. If you take a high quality supplement such as Nordic Naturals or Carlson Finest at a reasonable dose would you say it could be beneficial? I eat a couple tins of Wild Planet sardines per week. Maybe that is more than enough Omega 3? My intake of Omega 6 is quite low although it appears O6:O3 ratio is not nearly as important as we once thought it was.

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Rig D on Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:43 pm

I think it is beneficial if the quality of your supplement is good. My understanding is that the el-cheapo supplements have a high propensity to be rancid, so yhou have to be careful to get the good quality.
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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by RedComet on Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:53 pm

I haven't taken O3 supplements in a long time. I think that a high quality supplement is worth it, but my understanding is that virtually everything you'll find on a store shelf is (probably) rancid. I've read that NKO (Neptune Krill Oil) is more shelf-stable, and that refrigerated fish oil supplements are less likely to be rancid, but they tend to cost a lot. Even then, refrigeration is no guarantee.

If you find a good supplement, let us know! I admit, it's been a few years since I've looked into this, so it's possible that better stuff is on the market now.
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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Rocky07 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:48 am

How can a consumer determine fish oil quality? Top shelf brands like Nordic Naturals and Carlson’s are tested by 3rd parties for heavy metals and that data is a available. However, I do not see any claims re oxidation. The only advice I have found is to cut open a capsule and use your nose. Apparently rancid fish oil is easy to spot. I question how well the smell test works since I eat sardines and my wife finds the smell so disgusting that I only eat them when she is out of the house.

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by John Caton on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:13 am

You may want to consider adding oysters and mussels on a regular basis. I wouldn't take supplements.

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by RedComet on Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:27 am

Rocky07 wrote:How can a consumer determine fish oil quality?

I've read that the smell is the best indicator. Some people claim that if it gives you fishy burps that may be an indication of rancidity too, though I don't know if that's a wive's tale. I've also heard it said that if the fish oil is cloudy it may be rancid.

There are a lot of opinions out there. With the possibility of my buying something rancid at a markup and no great way to ascertain its freshness, I prefer not to waste the money. Oysters/clams/sardines and other seafood are a great way to get some extra omega 3's and other nutrients, though it's hard to say if a steady intake of such foods will heal the ills that most people treat with high doses of fish oil... I'm not sure if sardines will do much for joint pain...
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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Ellito on Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:59 am

I would not take fish oil. Many of the trials have methodological flaws, like inappropriate placebos, that make it seem better than it is. If I wanted to reduce inflammation, I would try to minimize omega-6 intake instead. In the absence of dietary polyunsaturated fat, the human body produces mead acid, which is anti-inflammatory itself.

If that's not enough, you could try aspirin.

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by John Caton on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:52 am

Ellito wrote:I would not take fish oil. Many of the trials have methodological flaws, like inappropriate placebos, that make it seem better than it is. If I wanted to reduce inflammation, I would try to minimize omega-6 intake instead. In the absence of dietary polyunsaturated fat, the human body produces mead acid, which is anti-inflammatory itself.

If that's not enough, you could try aspirin.

+1, mostly. Smile Aspirin's anti inflammatory action is effective to suppress PDEs derived from PUFAs and responsible for sensations of pain, but one should also be aware that aspirin will also suppress lipolysis in general. Not good if you are looking to burn fat for weight loss.

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by OnTheBayou on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:40 pm

About a week ago I started a thread about Ray Peat's opinion that fish oil is just another lipid peroxiding PUFA and is to be avoided. As typical for him, a lot of good citations.

I threw out the remaining sardine oil I had.

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Lovebird on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:33 am

OnTheBayou wrote:About a week ago I started a thread about Ray Peat's opinion that fish oil is just another lipid peroxiding PUFA and is to be avoided.  As typical for him, a lot of good citations.  

I threw out the remaining sardine oil I had.

Since you did not start that thread on PrimalForums please link to it so that others can read as well... must be difficult to keep track of your posts on the interwebs, OTB. Cool The only one mentioning Ray Peat here so far, was John Caton in the coffee thread, to which you responded.

And I don't think you're referring to this: https://www.anabolicmen.com/fish-oil-testosterone/ as it was posted in 2017, before your fish oil experiment at MDA. http://forum.marksdailyapple.com/forum/the-primal-blueprint-forum-discussion/primal-blueprint-nutrition/3006088-omega-3-s-and-arthritis
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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Lovebird on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:55 am

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml
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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by OnTheBayou on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:52 am

Thanks, Lovebird! Was sound asleep when you posted!

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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Meant2Move on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:20 pm

Hey Rockey07 - just a thought. Since your concern had to do with some achy joints, a supplement you might consider is curcumin. It is an anti-inflammatory as well as antioxidant, anti-thrombotic and is thought to have cardiovascular protective benefits.

I do fairly intensive rock gym sessions a couple of time a week and my hands (joints) get really achy, I find that since I started taking curcumin, they are a little less achy.
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Re: Fish Oil Supplementation

Post by Dawn on Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:37 am

My sister in law took fish-oil for years and has had severe hart problems (don't know which came first), a friend of hers suggested changing to an Extra Virgin fish oil bc the one she took might be rancid- and after she changed her hart problems have decreased - from several attacks per week (not regular attacks, don't know exactly what was the problem) to a couple per month... wonder if it would go away all together if she stopped supplementing?

My husband and I eat raw sardines several times pr week. Living in Spain we have access to a lot of fish, and our local supermarket carries these raw sardines in olive oil and vinegar. I can't stand the smell of the canned sardines. I do believe that most foods are healthier in their whole food version than in supplement form... the raw sardines also give me all the CQ10 I need.

In addition to the sardines we share a can of smoked cod-liver a couple of times a week. We have discovered that the A, D and E from the livers help his cortisol cycle and improves his sleep imensely (he has been suffering from insomnia for years). Unfortunately the supermarket has just changed brands and the new brand they have is less delicious than the old ... actually I can't make myself eat it

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