Lab-grown meat

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:07 am

Interesting thoughts, John.

I recall reading a few years ago about anthropologists figuring out about when in our evolution we stayed alive long enough to become grandparents. For women, obviously not too many reproductive years left or none at all. At first glance, why keep them alive? (Men would be coming into peak leadership possibilities, and by extension, get choice mates.)

Having two generations of elders alive at the same time came with greater survival. More help to raise the tadpoles, a larger pool of collective wisdom.

Grandparenting is definitely unnatural, looking at most animals. But it works for us, especially with the long maturation time we need.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:35 am

Not sure why/how this came up on my radar, but the definitive book on fake meat?

https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Meat-Growing-Without-Revolutionize/dp/1501189085/ref=pd_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1501189085&pd_rd_r=XV51PH2KK3GWQF8VV0X3&pd_rd_w=gfPKv&pd_rd_wg=K46dr&psc=1&refRID=XV51PH2KK3GWQF8VV0X3&dpID=51U8HuWO0BL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail

Too expensive for something I'm only peripherally interested in, but there ya go.............

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:41 am

^From the description:
"Paul Shapiro gives you a front-row seat for the wild story of the race to create and commercialize cleaner, safer, sustainable meat—real meat—without the animals."

Hopefully he gives a real clear explanation of what the word real means.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:44 am

I don't think there's any ambiguity about "real."

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:58 am

Real meat, no animals. Sounds like a basic definition issue to me.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:02 am

Only if you choose it to be.

"Real," actual animal cells. Simple.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:23 am

"Real," actual animal cells. Simple.
Just a little bit of going round ye olde circle.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:41 am

Semantics. Words are assigned value by our minds and convention.

I can remember when "organic" was a new movement, talking over forty years ago. "Conventional" food growers disdained the label, noting that all food is organic in the chemistry sense. Which it is, of course.

No doubt there will be semantic shake out as lab meat comes to market.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:05 am

OK, "they" can now grow human organs as long as they have an original scaffolding minus certain cells. They they add the cells they want and voila! a human kidney. But it still has to be treated with numerous chemicals along the way, and requires a period of maturation being told what to become and do by the adjoining cells to become a fully functional kidney. I'd balk at that kidney being transplanted into me until the process is as flawless as it can get.
And real meat that never saw an animal cannot be lab grown w/o using animal tissue as a foundation. Like the old joke when a professor claimed he could make a human from dirt. A  dissenter jeered, "Make yer own dirt! "

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:33 am

https://blog.restaurantscanada.org/index.php/2018/02/07/would-you-cook-with-a-new-generation-of-protein-called-clean-meat/

Clean meat/fish and eggs as well as milk/cheese/gelatin... the latter probably coming to the stores first, as they are easier/cheaper to produce. Not compared to the real thing, just to the lab meat/fish.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:57 am

Mastodon based gummy candy? Now that is a just a trifle on the spooky side.

A thought struck me while reading the article. Once "they" have mastered the ability to grow animal protein without animals, what will that do to much of the moral argument for the vegan community?
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:47 am

Then the vegans will hare off (pardon the expression! Razz ) onto new moral grounds. Maybe protesting that farmers are destroying the earth by using cultivation of mono crops instead of more natural mixed plantings. Or seeking the death penalty for closet animal flesh eaters? Who knows?
BTW, Lovebird, there already exists a gelatin analog from the true marsh mallows, milk substitutes from plants, and rennet-free soy cheeses. (Tofu, anyone?)

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:11 pm

Paysan wrote:
BTW, Lovebird, there already exists a gelatin analog from the true marsh mallows, milk substitutes from plants, and rennet-free soy cheeses. (Tofu, anyone?)

I know that there are plenty of vegan options already available but the ones I was referring to are made in a similar fashion as the lab meat/fish and are therefore animal based... hence not suited for true vegans. Smile

I did read in another article that the original lab meat was made by putting the cells in blood, which goes against the premise of not hurting animals to produce it. There is an alternative (lab made) but it's far too expensive at the moment. And it's not like they can create a good piece of meat like nature can, more likely to replace things like minced meat and such. What they intend to do in the long run is replace CAFO meat with 'clean meat'. At least that's what it said in the newspaper article (which wasn't in English).
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:55 pm

There IS a solution to CAFO meat - grass-raised 100% pastured animals. Except for far northern and southern or tropical areas where grass is at a disadvantage, most of our common meat animals can stay out and feed themselves from their grazing areas. Organically raised hay can fill in the hungry gaps. It's still the people who have to make the adjustments, not the critters, as this is their ancestral way of life.
Whether or not research experiments to re-invent the wheel (to better nature) remains an open question. I predict they'll fail, as we STILL don't know all the biology of our own bodies and their nutrient requirements.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Wed May 16, 2018 5:11 am



Plant-based steak. Oxymoron. Unless you mean the grass went thru the cow and got converted into tasty & healthy meat.

This one's made with wheat & soy. Yum. Not.

I know this is not what the OP is about, but it fits due to replies.

Europeans are in the 'lucky' position to try it first... imagine the horror when you find out someone tried to fool/poison you by feeding you this without warning... Sad Crying or Very sad
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Wed May 16, 2018 7:56 am

Even the ad is disgusting. Loaded with guilt, eco-correctness. As I've often said, no one has tried to make beef taste like tofu.

I think this product may already be around in some form. I sort of recall reading here on the intertubes about one of these soy charlatans copying what we usually call the blood in muscle meats. Something globulin? It's what is missing from most of the faux meat products.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Wed May 16, 2018 9:00 am

Didn't you know that's a favoured tactic? (retorical question btw) Guilt often works better than logic... at least with the general public.

There is nothing wrong with a vegetarian or even vegan meal on occasion, prepared with plants, not made in plants... but who buys stuff like this? scratch Who are they trying to fool here? Rolling Eyes

There are plenty of vids making vegan/vegetarian (seitan) steaks... but so far none made it into the stores here... not that I'd buy any of that fake food.

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2018/05/14/Dutch-Vivera-claims-world-first-with-plant-based-steak

Ingredients: rehydrated soya and wheat protein (81%), coconut oil, sunflower oil, thickener (methyl cellulose), natural flavourings, colours (beetroot red, safflower), vegetable fibres, wheat starch, maltodextrin, sea salt, potato protein, herbs and spices, barley malt extract, acidity regulator (citric acid), vitamins and minerals (iron, vitamin B12).
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Wed May 16, 2018 9:04 am

Well, at least it has coconut oil in it!

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Wed May 16, 2018 10:16 am

MMM good!? What could be more Primal, "steak" made from wheat and soy? Hand me the barf bag.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Heuristicfireflower on Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:06 pm

John Caton wrote:".......but nature is predictable. Nature can be trusted to deliver identifiable benefits, unclouded by corporate motivation.

Paysan wrote:There IS a solution to CAFO meat - grass-raised 100% pastured animals.....
Whether or not research experiments to re-invent the wheel (to better nature)....I predict they'll fail, as we STILL don't know all the biology of our own bodies and their nutrient requirements.

Have to agree.
Wouldn't touch it. There are immense biological variables that a lab cannot control. Specific systems of cell growth and development are designed with intricate complexity that are intrinsic to the environment - sunlight to name one. How much time passes before, someone gets the bright idea of additives to "enhance" the product or alter it without our knowledge. As some one pointed out corporations always have an agenda and their bottom line is NOT consumer health.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

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