Lab-grown meat

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:44 am

priest wrote:if it came down to going vegan again vs. lab meat, I'll take the lab meat in a heartbeat.  you can't live long without animal protein

You could be a vegetarian... or pescetarian... which would still be way better than lab meat. Or keep your own rabbits...
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:52 am

Paysan wrote:There is a middle ground where you can respectfully listen to another's opinions w/o agreeing with him. What's more, you might even learn something.

Exactly! study
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:14 am

^ I would submit that if his posts here had been under some other username, like "Primalconvert" he would have passed scrutiny other than being considered pretty eccentric.

He may be a fraud and he may be grinning from ear to ear. Who knows? In the meantime I will treat him as any other user.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by sharperhawk on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:21 am

I agree with Rocky. I see no evidence that priest has changed. His "conversion" is so transparently fake. He should be banned on the basis of his MDA abuse alone. If some bot were on a blacklist of known spambots, would you let it on here just because it hasn't spammed this particular forum yet?
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:03 pm

If some bot were on a blacklist of known spambots, would you let it on here just because it hasn't spammed this particular forum yet?
He's not a spambot. I don't accept your analogy as a valid argument in this situation.
He should be banned on the basis of his MDA abuse alone
B. I suppose you are also in favor of those criminals who've served their time in prison continue to be shunned by society and possibly denied jobs?

If you are right on him, he'll shoot his own foot off sooner or later.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Annieh on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:03 pm

Rig D wrote:Acting in my role as a moderator: Come on folks.

...

If you really find fault with another user, PLEASE don't bitch about him/her on the various threads. How 'bout following the guidelines and contact one of the current 3 moderators

or if there are simply posts you don't like, just not respond to them.
Thanks Rig.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by John Caton on Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:15 am

I've had a great vision about a meat making machine, once all the bugs have been worked out in the lab. It would use grass as a raw product. We would simply stuff grass in one end and let the machine turn it into meat. It would get rid of any non-usable stuff out the other end. Robotics could also play a role. It could be programmed to move randomly through a field of grass like those robotic floor cleaners do, cut the grass it it moves along, process it into meat and dump the waste back onto the grass. Not sure, but the waste might even be beneficial to recharge the growth of the grass for a future pass. Gotta work on this.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:22 am

Smile Smile Or you could just go buy a cow you sly devil you.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by ONTARIO on Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:00 am

John Caton wrote:I've had a great vision about a meat making machine, once all the bugs have been worked out in the lab. It would use grass as a raw product.  We would simply stuff grass in one end and let the machine turn it into meat.  It would get rid of any non-usable stuff out the other end.  Robotics could also play a role.  It could be programmed to move randomly through a field of grass like those robotic floor cleaners do, cut the grass it it moves along, process it into meat and dump the waste back onto the grass. Not sure, but the waste might even be beneficial to recharge the growth of the grass for a future pass. Gotta work on this.


Hahaha..... I think there's already a patent on something like that. Wink Very Happy

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Acroyali on Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:32 pm

My first reaction is "gross", my second reaction is "it would be nice to be able to buy meat cheaper/better than CAFO and without having to dodge buzz-words like "natural" that dupe 99% of the public", and then my other reaction is that test tube meat isn't normal-sounding and I'd be suspicious of taste, texture, true quality and all that stuff.
For now, I'd probably pass.


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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:07 pm

<Giggle> I think John was pulling our legs with a good description of a natural product -  grass-fed cattle.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:11 am

sharperhawk wrote:If the mods aren't willing to ban priest, then perhaps they could do what they did with srinath. Allow him to put all his posts in his own journal thread (and nowhere else).

First of all, Srinath is not confined to posting in his own journal. Just those posts that have nothing to do with Primal. Smile You know, the kind of stuff that belongs in Loose Ends. Or in a diary.

Second, this reminded me of Ontario's final reply to Srinath and therefore I will quote it to inform Priest as well:

So, please, be considerate of others who have now spoken out. This is a community. And, furthermore, a Primal community. Just like Grok, what you do, say, etc, affects the entire group. Please do not makes us have to cast you out and leave you to die in your lone, one-man domain alone with the sabre-toothed tigers.

There is no need to repeat yourself, claiming to have converted to Primal/keto. People will either trust you or they won't. It's their choice to make. If you truly want to fit in, stop posting about vegans. BTW the fact that you were/are a vegan is irrelevant to membership here. As long as you don't link to vegan propaganda it doesn't matter.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:25 am

don't link to vegan propaganda? isn't it better to debunk it than simply ignore it and hope it goes away? and why bother worrying about linking to it if you've already got entire threads such as this one entirely DEVOTED to it, written from scratch BY primals?

you know who's REALLY grinning ear to ear that we're discussing vegan propaganda while simultaneously banning linking to it? VEGANS! this is precisely what they want, they're coming down hard on the primal/ keto lifestyle, and here we are not only not fighting back, but entertaining the thought of implementing one of the facets of their new world order. are we Groks, or are we mice???

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:51 am

Squeak, squeak! (There's already enough controversy in the world. Why fan the flames?)

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:05 pm

you're fanning the flames more by discussing a vegan propaganda piece like lab-grown meats as a viable option rather than debunking/ denouncing it outright. that's what vegans want, to create doubt. like big tobacco

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:24 pm

When lab grown meats are more available, at 20 times less than current costs (that makes it...um...bad mathematician here ... 10,000 divided by 20 = $5000 per lb), who will be eating it other than rich vegans and/or experimental lab rats (ie, people?) But let's say it finally gets down to a more reasonable figure due to future as yet uninvented technologies, will any of us be here? It will take a major major revolution to seize the meat from carnivores' mouths, especially as so-called 3rd world countries are adding meat proteins at an accelerating pace to basically vegetarian diets.
Since Big Tobacco is now being called to account as never before, I'll accept your analogy as long as you accept the future of artificial meats is still much in the future.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:39 pm

I don't accept the viability of lab-grown meats at all, but for the sake of argument I'll address the future wrinkle by saying that lab-grown meat would be an abomination for my children's children. entertaining the thought that it could EVER be viable plays right into their hands.

death is a part of life, and in order for us to survive, animals must die. you can't fool Mother Nature. to suggest otherwise would be to deny our Grok roots

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:33 pm

priest wrote:don't link to vegan propaganda?  isn't it better to debunk it than simply ignore it and hope it goes away?  and why bother worrying about linking to it if you've already got entire threads such as this one entirely DEVOTED to it, written from scratch BY primals?  

you know who's REALLY grinning ear to ear that we're discussing vegan propaganda while simultaneously banning linking to it?  VEGANS!  this is precisely what they want, they're coming down hard on the primal/ keto lifestyle, and here we are not only not fighting back, but entertaining the thought of implementing one of the facets of their new world order.  are we Groks, or are we mice???

This is the exact same nonsense as Srinath did to fight YOUR posts at MDA. I'm done.

Sayonara Priest. And don't come back.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rocky07 on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:31 am

Lovebird wrote:
Rocky07 wrote:
Well, he has accomplished his goal. I’m sure he has a big smile on his face now.

To be frank, I don't get it. Don't you all want a forum that's open to everyone who's pro Primal/Paleo? A community where people feel at home, like family? Which by the way includes everyone, on the hopes of changing their view when they can't see it clearly on their own. People can change, and to vilify them on past behaviour without giving them a chance feels wrong.


Glad you got it. Thanks.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:01 am

John, you are the best!

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by LoonieJ on Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:01 pm

Ick with a capital ICK. That's my knee-jerk reaction.

After thinking it over thoughtfully, I've got to say, "Ick with a capital ICK." tongue

Seriously, every time man tries to improve on nature, we screw it up. I'll eat bugs and worms before I'll eat lab-created meat.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:41 pm

LoonieJ wrote:Ick with a capital ICK. That's my knee-jerk reaction.

After thinking it over thoughtfully, I've got to say, "Ick with a capital ICK." tongue

Seriously, every time man tries to improve on nature, we screw it up. I'll eat bugs and worms before I'll eat lab-created meat.

That's a reaction, not a thought process.

No one knows what a marketable product will be like. What's good, what's not so good. As these are actual meat cells, there is the potential that it will be exactly..........meat. I say potential, because I presume the quality would depend on the nutrients provided. Which means it could actually be better than nature.

I postulated earlier that "they" could make a paleo version: nose to tail, liver, brain, heart, all in on handy dandy no refrigeration needed ultra pasteurized handy foil packet.

Joking on the packaging. I think we have it today, it's called jerky.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by LoonieJ on Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:01 pm

That's the thing... better than nature? I don't believe in it. We've pretty much done nothing but degrade food since we started intervening. More meat per animal? Sure, let's give it hormones. Year 'round access to many kinds of produce from all over the world? Let's select for durability during travel rather than nutrition or flavor.

It may have sounded like only a reaction (though following one's gut instinct isn't always bad), but that gut reaction comes from lots of reading, and from observing that in my lifetime, we've basically turned our mass produced food into garbage.

Nature is just nature. Left alone, it can be brutal, but it's pretty perfect. People have agendas.

JMO Smile
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:18 am

@LoonieJ: I respectfully disagree on the alleged perfection of nature and it's handmaiden, evolution. There's no good reason for us to have an appendix, women die in childbirth due to our enlarged heads, wouldn't it be great to have constantly renewed teeth like a shark, and, oh, the fragility of our knees.

Food selected for durability and travel is a necessity if we aren't growing our own. No one would buy tomatoes that are all bruised and pulpy, even if higher in nutrition and flavor. I suggest that this isn't man trying to improve on nature and failing, but meeting real world production and consumption needs. Wouldn't you rather have fresh produce all year than not? (Overlooking huge energy costs of transportation, which the vegan types conveniently forget as they eat grapes from Chile.)

I just saw a claim that artificial meat could reduce water consumption almost 90% and crop lands and soil depletion by about half.

As much as I am pro-paleo and anti-vegan, I am willing to admit that maybe we didn't evolve to a perfect natural diet and that, especially for some people, a non-evolutionary based diet works better. Or, could be therapeutic in the short haul. In other words, I try to keep an open mind based on evidence.

I ask the same in your artificial meat stance. Keep an open mind. None of us peons have any idea how it will pan out in the future. Could be Nestle Baby Formula fiasco again (early, especially, formulas being shit,) or it could help feed a world with quality protein, head to tail while drastically reducing environmental damage.

Thas' all I saying.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by John Caton on Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:03 am

Evolutionarily speaking, nature only needs humans to survive through reproduction age plus some short nurturing period. Anything beyond that has been the result of human ingenuity.

There's no context in the "the perfection of nature" statements we make. To die is natural, too. An example of "imperfection in nature" would be if we routinely died before reproducing, but that context isn't usually what the defenders of nature mean.

Resorting to unnatural foods for human benefit wouldn't have to be a bad thing if we knew what we were doing. However, to date, the primary human benefit of unnatural food has been money into corporate coffers, not life extension nor life enhancement. Since nature has sustained human evolution for many thousands of years, i won't say "nature is perfect", but nature is predictable. Nature can be trusted to deliver identifiable benefits, unclouded by corporate motivation.

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