Lab-grown meat

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Lab-grown meat

Post by Nightly Orange on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:37 pm

Came across this article today:

https://newatlas.com/beef-industry-petition-definition-lab-grown-meat/53535/

What do y'all think of test tube meat? I recall reading somewhere that early versions of this stuff had the disgusting consistency of jello (something about the muscle proteins not being properly aligned due to the lack of functional exercise), but assuming producers managed to dial in the process so that its taste and texture are indistinguishable from the real thing, would you eat it?


  • Ethically, at least in terms of animal suffering, it's definitely superior to CAFO meat and even grass-fed, organic, free-range, pastured, etc., animals. Though maybe the latter is arguable--do some people feel that giving a livestock animal a long, healthy, and humane life with a swift and painless death at the end is preferable to raising non-sentient meat cells that neither thrived nor suffered at all?

  • For environmental sustainability, I don't know enough yet about the processes that go into making lab meat or the resources consumed to say for sure right now. As far as the environmental impact goes, though, I think Allan Savory and others like him make a good case that properly structured grazing operations can result in net positive environmental benefits. If he's right, it'll be hard for even lab-grown meat to top that, even if it's environmentally better than CAFO or the majority of grass-fed animals.

  • Healthwise though, I suspect pastured animals raised on their natural food sources will still be ideal. A cow getting plenty of sunshine and fresh water and eating a diet of healthy grasses all its life is a supremely intricate biological machine honed over millions of years of evolution to optimize its own mammalian nutritional needs, and those healthful benefits are passed on to us when we consume its flesh. The issues with hormones, antibiotics, and other pollutants in CAFO meat need not be rehashed here. But as for lab-grown meat, it'll only ever be as nutritious as whatever Soylent-esque nutrient bath is used to grow these cells, and I don't have much faith that the scientists involved will be able to come up with a formula that hits all the bases.


If lab meat ever becomes so popular that it's a common alternative option in restaurants, I might opt for it over CAFO meat, but 95% of my diet is stuff I cook at home and I don't see myself replacing pastured/free-range animals products on that front, due to the nutritional benefits alone.

Thoughts?
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Annieh on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Nightly Orange wrote: But as for lab-grown meat, it'll only ever be as nutritious as whatever Soylent-esque nutrient bath is used to grow these cells, and I don't have much faith that the scientists involved will be able to come up with a formula that hits all the bases.
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Instinctively, I recoil from the very concept of lab-grown "meat". I just "feel" that real food is the ideal. I do like the way you have assessed it from various points of view though, and your quoted comment particularly resonates.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by RedComet on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:49 pm

Oof, not for me. I'll stick to the real deal, and your third bullet point sums up my reasons perfectly.

It's entirely possible that someday (probably a long, long time from now) they'll be able to synthesize something on-par with real grass-fed meat, but if I were a betting man I'd put that several decades away, at least. I might be dead by the time they get something like that right. So much goes into high quality meat--the macronutrient/micronutrient profiles and texture are only part of it--that I'm not sure scientists will ever be able to replicate it with 100% fidelity in a test tube. I mean, we have drugs and chemicals today that are mimics of natural substances (think folate vs. folic acid). Despite their being nearly identical, the man-made analogues often have unintentioned side-effects.

Creating a slab of protein in a lab that hits basic nutritional thresholds and doesn't kill you is one thing. To synthesize the real thing in a test tube will essentially require scientists to have a complete understanding of nature/biology. Until food science reaches its apotheosis, I just don't see that happening.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Narrowminded on Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:00 am

Nope won’t touch the stuff if it ever came about. Look at the margarine fiasco. It’s healthier for you - NOT. i can see the same think happening. 25 years down the line it is. Now proven to cause X.

No thanks, I’d become a real vegetarian be for that meaning, relying on veg. Not grains with a side of veg
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:18 am

It is a NO from me.
RedComet's rationale fits my reasons well.
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by ONTARIO on Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:11 am

Absolutely not. I firmly believe that mankind shouldn't be screwing around with the replication and/or synthesis of innate beings. We, as a species (or even other animals that eat animal protein), are innately structured to eat the real deal. I think it's a bad idea to start eating lab-created food. How is this any different than eating the frankenfoods we see in so many processed foods?

From an ethical perspective I also believe humans are meant to use and eat animals. Animals eat animals and we're animals when all is said and done. I am a big animal lover. I'm also a hypocrite. Give me a live pig and he'll become my newest backyard pet. I could never look an animal in the eye and then kill and eat it. But I'm okay with it as long as I can stay blissfully ignorant to the process and simply savour its flavour instead of the memory of its sweet face. I also can not reasonably argue why it's okay to eat a chicken or pig or cow but not a dog. But you'll never find me eating the family pet!

We didn't get here as a species eating only plants and we won't continue, in my opinion, by eating lab-created meat. While I can not explain why innate can not be replicated I know it can't. We are messing around  in things better left alone.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:03 pm

It's all OK.  We'll soon (maybe 10-20 yrs from now) get a really good definition and distinction on what meat is, and beef in particular:
"The U.S. Cattlemen's Association is looking to draw a line in the sand and launch what could be the first salvo in a long battle against plant-based foods. Earlier this month, the association filed a 15-page petition with the U.S. Department of Agriculture calling for an official definition for the term "beef," and more broadly, "meat." "

The Fight Against Fake Meat
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by ONTARIO on Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:26 pm

Haha..... thanks for that RigD! In the end even the big guys like the Beef Industry have it all come down to language and semantics. That's actually pretty genius if you think about it.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:34 pm

this is just more vegan conspiracy nonsense. we have dominion over animals, which means we get to pick and choose which ones get to be our pets and which ones get to be on our plates. the vegans are fighting a losing battle because nothing created in a lab will ever taste as good as the real thing. they're living in a fantasy world where supply and demand and carbon sequestration don’t exist

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:33 pm

I'm not so instantly off put. The raising of animals for slaughter, even if pastured, involves tremendous amount of resources for the production, slaughter, and distribution. While cattle, sheep, and goats can thrive on pasture, I don't think so much for pigs. The amount of waste product is killing us, and we will never get everyone to decide "No more CAFO meats." Even the Argentines are starting to feed lot cattle. The allure of the $$ is too strong.

A story I read in the last year was a journalist trying synthetic hamburger. He pronounced it "getting real close." Of course, it was something like $5000/lb!

As this is made from actual beef stem cells, the product is 100% actual beef. However, I can see where the quality compared to good beef might vary with nutrient base.

Also, (a Paleo entrepreneur?) could make a "nose to tail" artificial meat. How cool would that be? Or change nutrient profiles, more glycine, less methionone. Bingo, longer lives. (lowering methionone increases longetivity, or increase the glycine, same end result.

Having pointed out some possible benefits, I am perfectly aware that this could be the same debacle as formula for babies. Whether inadequate knowledge, or going for that lowest production cost.

At this time I am optimistic that artificial meat holds promises of great benefits, while remaining cautious.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by sharperhawk on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm

Someday, probably. Today, not for me. You first!
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by OnTheBayou on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:14 pm

sharperhawk wrote:Someday, probably. Today, not for me. You first!

"Someday" will be here sooner than you think!

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by ekba on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:22 pm

What do you feed lab grown meat?
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:19 pm

Sort of like the fierce debate raging over the right to "organic" labels now claimed by hydroponic veggies. They're raised w/o pesticides, herbicides, and, in some cases, chemical fertilizers. That alone may make them better choices than standard field-grown vegetables. But they have no associated fungal or mycorrhizal soil factors that are now taking their rightful place as adjuncts for healthy food choices.
As both a confirmed carnivore and pet lover (and past farmer), I can readily see the arguments for ethical raising.But I have resolved it thusly in my own mind -if I can afford it and it fits with regenerative farming principles, I'll eat it. If it's a question of my children starving or feeding pets, it's   Sayonara, Rover and Puss. Except for humans (I do make SOME exceptions;))  there's no animal that I wouldn't eat under dire circumstances. Whether that includes animalus laboratorius remains to be seen. Laughing

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:29 pm

if it came down to going vegan again vs. lab meat, I'll take the lab meat in a heartbeat. you can't live long without animal protein

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rocky07 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:19 pm

priest wrote:if it came down to going vegan again vs. lab meat, I'll take the lab meat in a heartbeat.  you can't live long without animal protein

Seriously, don’t you have anything better to do than troll here?

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:34 pm

um, excuse me? I'm fully primal now, in case you missed my announcement

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:09 pm

Just Never say never again, Priest, and then you'll seem more balanced and reasonable. Laughing

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by priest on Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:01 pm

what do you want me to say? that there's a scenario wherein I could become vegan again, and then I'll seem reasonable? ok, sure, if meat gets outlawed and I'm in a coma and not able to kill my own animals illegally, I'll go vegan again

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Paysan on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:08 pm

Nah, you're emoting too much, Priest. Everything is so black and white to you that reason flies out the window. It's 110 % in, and 110% out. Believe it or not, there is a middle ground where you can respectfully listen to another's opinions w/o agreeing with him. What's more, you might even learn something . That's why we encourage a diversity of opinion on the forums, else we'd all be Yes-men and Bobbleheads. And that would be so boring! Rolling Eyes

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by sharperhawk on Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:27 pm

If the mods aren't willing to ban priest, then perhaps they could do what they did with srinath. Allow him to put all his posts in his own journal thread (and nowhere else). Then we won't have to read all the posts saying, "I totally HATE vegans. Look at the stupid video that this vegan doctor put out http: ...."
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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rig D on Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:02 am

Acting in my role as a moderator: Come on folks.

I'm nowhere close to being a Priest advocate, but imho he has been staying in-line with our guidelines. LoveBird has addressed a couple of things he's done in the last month, but I think if you go look at what he's posted you will find that he is doing OK. See his posts by going to memberlist, find him, and go to posts and statistics to see a full list.

Now you may question his Primal Conversion and/or his vegan past. You may object to his opinions, his sometimes off the wall conclusions, and as Paysan noted, his always black/white views, but he's been expressing them in OK terms, with a few recent slam terms on vegans that have been the focus of LB's actions. His posts are nowhere close to being the abusive, confrontational, argument for argument's sake stuff we had become accustomed to at MDA Forum.

To summarize: I thought Priest was a total a-hole on MDA who felt obligated to post all the time. When he joined here, we watched him very closely. I think he's pretty much straightened up on how he interacts. He's not that prolific a poster, but it seems that no matter what he says someone jumps on him.

If you really find fault with another user, PLEASE don't bitch about him/her on the various threads. How 'bout following the guidelines and contact one of the current 3 moderators (me, Lovebird, Ontario) via PM with what it is that is causing you grief? As of this time, I have never received anything of this nature from anybody about anything. The mods have a pretty active area that the rest of you don't see where we can and do discuss things/people that are a concern.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rocky07 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:54 am

Rig D wrote:Acting in my role as a moderator: Come on folks.

I'm nowhere close to being a Priest advocate, but imho he has been staying in-line with our guidelines. LoveBird has addressed a couple of things he's done in the last month, but I think if you go look at what he's posted you will find that he is doing OK. See his posts by going to memberlist, find him, and go to posts and statistics to see a full list.

Now you may question his Primal Conversion and/or his vegan past. You may object to his opinions, his sometimes off the wall conclusions, and as Paysan noted, his always black/white views, but he's been expressing them in OK terms, with a few recent slam terms on vegans that have been the focus of LB's actions. His posts are nowhere close to being the abusive, confrontational, argument for argument's sake stuff we had become accustomed to at MDA Forum.

To summarize: I thought Priest was a total a-hole on MDA who felt obligated to post all the time. When he joined here, we watched him very closely. I think he's pretty much straightened up on how he interacts. He's not that prolific a poster, but it seems that no matter what he says someone jumps on him.

If you really find fault with another user, PLEASE don't bitch about him/her on the various threads. How 'bout following the guidelines and contact one of the current 3 moderators (me, Lovebird, Ontario) via PM with what it is that is causing you grief? As of this time, I have never received anything of this nature from anybody about anything. The mods have a pretty active area that the rest of you don't see where we can and do discuss things/people that are a concern.


Well, he has accomplished his goal. I’m sure he has a big smile on his face now.

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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Lovebird on Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:11 am

Rocky07 wrote:
Well, he has accomplished his goal. I’m sure he has a big smile on his face now.

To be frank, I don't get it. Don't you all want a forum that's open to everyone who's pro Primal/Paleo? A community where people feel at home, like family? Which by the way includes everyone, on the hopes of changing their view when they can't see it clearly on their own. People can change, and to vilify them on past behaviour without giving them a chance feels wrong.


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Re: Lab-grown meat

Post by Rocky07 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:14 am

I believe Priest is a total fraud and enjoys trolling here. His posts are clearly meant to mock, IMO. However, you are completely right that I should not continue to express that view and I assure you I will not do it again. Thanks for moderating.

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